New here – advice needed

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

I’m very sorry to hear of your situation. Very sorry for you, your family and your father.

It’s far beyond the scope of anything I can address. Unfortunately, my experience has been that research on and treatment for hoarding has not gotten to where it needs to be for effectiveness — especially long term.

Personally, I am focusing on healing my developmental trauma. I believe it’s at the root of my hoarding behaviors and that my hoarding has served as a coping mechanism for me.

I understand you had to clear out space in your father’s home in order for him to be discharged from the hospital. If your father’s hoarding serves as his coping mechanism — then having things removed without his consent was probably traumatizing for him and caused him to lose trust in you and your family.

Please understand that I am not blaming you and your family in any way. There is so much that is not understood about hoarding. It is a prickly condition.

Wish I had an answer for you. All I can say is to let your father know that you love him no matter what. One thing I’ve learned on my healing journey is that I have allowed useless items to overtake my precious living space because I believed the stuff was more worthy of care than I was.

[OddsocksParticipant]

I am so sorry to hear about your father’s hoarding, and the anxiety and strain for you.

Unfortunately its very difficult when someone doesnt want to declutter.  At 75 its maybe unlikely he will change his behaviour.

Have a look at the ‘friends and family’ section (top right). Mind has a good section for hoarding that includes information for families too (google Mind hoarding)

What could be useful would be to tell him what the risks are, just on a factual level? Such as risk of falls, risks of fire (and putting firefighters in danger), food poisoning, rats or mice (risk of chewing metal cables as well as hygeine), hypothermia.  I guess he has some incentive of not going into hospital again.

Then its up to him.

You can try using letters? So at least you can contact him, if he can access his front door. Put through his letterbox if you live nearby.  You could work out somewhere dry outside where he can leave replies, if he wants to?

Its so sad that he is living that way, and so frustrating for you.

 

 

[OddsocksParticipant]

Sorry huge post! Dont need to read it all. Most important things are in first few lines

I’m not sure, but one option would be to tell him you arent going to talk about his need to clear some of his hoard? So that its not damaging your relationship?

Making his own decisions

Understandably there are strict laws about when some’s rights to make decisions are taken away. There is sectioning under the Mental Health Act for people with a mental illness who are a risk to themselves or others. Then there are issues about ‘capacity’.

Social services and his GP know about those things and dont think they apply. Do they know the full extent of his hoarding, like no heating and bottles of urine? If not you can tell them. Unlikely to make a difference, but just in case. I’d suggest by letter or email (preferably with read receipt), so there is written evidence of what you have told them?  Not over the phone. Being clear that you are not expecting them to breach confidentiality- you are giving them information only.

There are 2 other people who can take action, and his welfare not considered. One is his landlord if he is a tenant. One is Council’s environmental  health department, I think in the situation of putting other people at risk.  That could lead to an enforced clearance which would be very distressing, and you have discovered that he just fills it up again, which often happens, as you have seen. (Fire service has no powers).

My personal experience

Was my GP not thinking its a health issue (although hoarding is a registered mental health issue), social services assessment from an adult care perspective (I dont need help with tasks like getting dressed or washing!) It was truly traumatic when I asked for a fire safety visit and their captain was really angry with me about the state of the flat. I did explain that I have mental health issues (depression) but he ignored me. Later that afternoon I got a call from social services, as he had referred me to them! It should have been from their mental health social workers, not adult care. Not sure the mental health ones would see it as a priority tho. Mental health services are swamped,and  my experience has been that you usually only get access if you are seriously suicidal or actively psychotic.

[MissPParticipant]

Thanks for the replies, so good advice and maybe the environmental health team is the way to go. So my dad came to visit yesterday, I was shocked at the state he’s in. Lost so much weight, looked awful, long hair, beard, dirty clothes. Managed to get him to stay the night, have a shower and washed all of his clothes. He is not well at all. I feel like he is totally neglecting himself. Probably too difficult to get to the kitchen to prepare any proper food, too hard to get out of the house to shop properly. It’s just like looking at a stranger. Feel so so stressed, worried and sad. I shouted at him, cried to him… I feel helpless. How can someone do this to themselves?! 75 years old, frail and has no heating or hot water. Why will nobody help?! I feel like I’m hitting a brick wall – I don’t know where to turn 🥺

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

I’m sorry to hear your father is in such a poor state. But I’m glad he visited you & stayed the night.

I feel like he is totally neglecting himself.

From examining myself & my hoarding behavior — hoarding IS self-neglect. It is the abandonment of self. Over-focusing on the well-being of “things” to the point of losing touch with my own needs.

It’s not about the “stuff.” It’s about my relationship with myself. I have been on a journey to learn to love myself, protect myself, and attune to my own needs.

This comment on reddit resonated deeply with me:

“You worry so much about these things being abandoned, when really — it’s YOU who feel abandoned.”

I’m going to guess that your father experienced developmental trauma in childhood?

[MissPParticipant]

No developmental trauma that I’m aware of.’my dad was one of 6 children, all had a good upbringing – I’ve spoken to his siblings and none of them are like him. They can’t understand why he is like he is. My dad mentions growing up post war but he was born in 1947 so after the war and his family had a good income etc. I just don’t understand it. I’m really really trying but everything seems to just be getting worse. Despite the hoarding, my dad has always kept himself clean and presentable but literally doesn’t care anymore.

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

Developmental trauma can be difficult to discern. In my case, good family with good income. But emotional neglect/inconsistency. My younger brother passed away unexpectedly when he was only three. I was five at the time. That was when our family became fractured. No proper grieving of the loss. The four of us basically siloed off.

Any trauma later in your father’s life? Was hoarding always an issue but to a lesser degree? Or did it manifest after a significant loss of some sort?

I used to always keep myself clean & presentable. But I’ll be honest — once I began isolating, I let things slide. I “know” to clean myself up when I’m going to meet other people. But when I’m on my own — my standards aren’t so high.

Were you able to converse with your father when he stayed the night? I understand you are incredibly frustrated and probably want to shake some sense into him. But if you can find it in your heart to try to connect with him in a compassionate way — maybe he’ll open up a bit??

Wishing you & your father healing.

• This reply was modified 3 years ago by ShedTheShame.

[OddsocksParticipant]

I feel so sorry for both of you!

I know you have already contacted his GP, but it might be worth trying again on the basis of his physical state? They might pay more attention if they arent looking on it as a hoarding issue. Ideally, it would be him making an appointment and actually get to see a doctor (not just on the phone), but he would need to want to do that.

Its great that he visited you. Is that something you can do in future, maybe regularly? Having a shower, clean clothes and some decent meals. Maybe doing some food shopping, tho then there’s the issue of who pays. Tins, packets etc as they dont go off? Can he heat food?( There are companies eg Wiltshire Farm foods,who deliver meals you put in the freezer then put in the microwave, but my guess he doesnt have either actually working. And they might be too expensive)

The complication is if that was too burdensome on your life. Your quality of life is important too!

I think there are probably a range of reasons why people become hoarders. If one can be identified.  Sadly, I dont think he would get counselling for developmental issues or other psychological things at his age and condition. And long delays if its NHS. It will be more about coping better in the present.

 

• This reply was modified 3 years ago by Oddsocks.

[MissPParticipant]

<p style=”text-align: right;”>So…. Just thought I should post an update. My dad has passed away. Absolutely broken hearted. Everything I said would happen did. He wasn’t answering his phone so went to his house and broke in. He had passed away, surrounded by all of the stuff he had spent so long hoarding. I had to wait for the police to call the fire service due to access and safety issues. The undertaker couldn’t get any equipment in so they had to carry my poor dad out by his arms and legs. Something that will stay with me forever. My poor dad.</p>

[chaosqueenParticipant]

Very sorry about your loss Miss P. I hope you can find closure and peace. Be gentle with yourself. Remember you did everything you could to change things, while still letting your father make his own choices. I hope you can also think about the good times you had together.

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

My deepest condolences, MissP.

I echo chaosqueen’s sentiments. Hoarding behaviors can become SO deeply ingrained, especially after many years. And the individual with the behaviors has to be the one to do the changing. You could not have changed his behaviors for him. No matter how much someone loves me & wants to help me — ultimately, I have to be the one who enacts change.

Please take good care of yourself. Witnessing that must have been traumatic for you. Allow yourself to grieve.

Something that’s helped me after my father passed is writing letters to him & setting them aflame to send to him. My father also had hoarding issues. I wish I knew back then what I now know. And I express that to him in my letters.

A beautiful book that has helped me process grief is The Smell of Rain on Dust: Grief and Praise by Martín Prechtel.

[OddsocksParticipant]

Lots of good posts already

I was so sorry to read that your dad has died.  I know how very distressing that can be. I hope that you are taking care of yourself. (There is lots of information I found useful on CRUSE’s website http://www.cruse.org.uk).

I dont know if this will help at all, but just to say a couple of things. It was awful that his body had to be taken out of the house like that, but of course it wasnt something he experienced. That must have been so traumatic for you. Having to have the fire service attend, not just the police must have been hard too.

My mother died after several years of worsening dementia. As soon as she died, I realised that it was just as valid to think of her in her younger healthy years as to think about her at the end of her life.

It was strange going from being very involved in her care, with that constant worry, to not having anything. Nice of course, but a bit disorientating.

 

 

 

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

My mother died after several years of worsening dementia. As soon as she died, I realised that it was just as valid to think of her in her younger healthy years as to think about her at the end of her life.

This is such a lovely, comforting notion. Thank you, Oddsocks.

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