Compassionate Discourse

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

Hear, hear!

[chaosqueenParticipant]

Frog in the well wrote:

I have such anger at at myself….

Unfortunately I can relate. Fortunately I have learned to be more patient with myself. Sometime it helps me to ask:”would you judge somebody else that harshly?” “Would you be upset with your husband if he failed to finish this?”

We can learn to forgive ourselves. It brings peace. Realizing I was a hoarder helped me be less upset with myself. Once I stopped hating myself for things being how they where it was easier to change. I still have ways to go.

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

chaosqueen wrote:

We can learn to forgive ourselves.

This advice on changing bad habits into good habits has helped me:

(1) Be aware of what we’re doing. Unless we’re aware of something, we can’t change it. Self-reflection.

(2) Create change through kindness. We tend to be very self-critical when we discover we have a bad habit. But negative criticism causes a bad habit to stay stuck. So forgive yourself. Once we discover we have a bad habit, we ask ourselves, “What can I learn from this?” Repeat this phrase over & over because bad habits are difficult to break! It takes time to change.

(3) We change habits by doing something different; we create a new habit. Because old habits are strong, we will slip. So we must remember to ask, “What can I learn from this? What can I do differently?” Willpower alone isn’t going to do it. We must replace bad habits with good habits.

Once we exercise a good habit over & over, that will become the new habit. And once a good habit is in place, it can be difficult to break, too

Thanks to everyone for being here. I appreciate you all.

[Kim2014]

I got ill and fell out of the conversation when all the words started swirling around and I couldn’t quite make exact sense of them. I’m still not all there, and haven’t caught it up properly, but want to say STS very good thoughts, but somewhere between your 1) and 2) I believe it’s important to try to develop self awareness and self reflection non judgementally in the first place.

Not everyone knows how to be self aware without beating themselves up in the process, and some may not yet know how to forgive themselves. Both are things I’ve had, and while I’m more aware, still do have, issues with. Accepting things as facts without putting value judgements on them has helped me.

Frog listen to the instinct that’s attracting you towards the words ‘[icompassionate[/i] discourse’ and do be compassionate towards yourself.

(If you can’t currently do it because you don’t feel you deserve it, which btw you do, :!: then for now, practise doing it because experience says most of us really do need to practise it to succeed at long term de-hoarding and maintenance.

[Frog in the well]

Thanks for the feedback,

I think something inside almost rebels against the changes and at times goes into sabotage mode.

[chaosqueenParticipant]

Frog in the well wrote:

Thanks for the feedback,

I think something inside almost rebels against the changes and at times goes into sabotage mode.

HA! So glad you mentioned sabotage mode. I caught myself kicking into sabotage mode repeatedly over the last few weeks. And I relaize it is something I have done all my life. Finally I am AWARE of it. And for the first time I didn’t call myself an idiot for sabotaging myself ( that is were non judgemental comes in like Kim said) but I just kind of sat back mentally and thought, why am I doing this? I think next time I will fine my self in sabotage mode I will ask:”what can I learn from this.”

Maybe we sabotage ourselves because we feel we don’t deserve to be successful? Or like Greycat mentioned, maybe we keep our hoard as an excuse to not have to face the world beyond our home? Questions, questions, questions….

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

chaosqueen wrote:

I caught myself kicking into sabotage mode repeatedly over the last few weeks. And I relaize it is something I have done all my life. Finally I am AWARE of it. And for the first time I didn’t call myself an idiot for sabotaging myself

Yes, we need to have compassionate discourse with our own selves!

Sometimes I feel I save things that serve as a weird way of inflicting suffering on myself. My father is a compulsive hoarder. My younger brother died tragically at age three on a hospital surgery table. When we cleared out my father’s apartment, I found an envelope he kept with my brother’s name written on it. It was filled with remembrances from the funeral. There was also an accounting breakdown of the measly financial settlement with the hospital, which broke my heart. And what did I do with the envelope? I took it home with me.

My mother, by contrast, has only kept my little brother’s tiny Converse tennis shoes. She has always kept them in her closet; never buried beneath other items.

Like my father, I’m hanging on to the death-related remembrances. WHY?? They’re such a sad reminder of the pain

My mother made the healthier choice of keeping one item which served as a cherished memory.

[blossum17]

We can only love & forgive others as much as we can love & forgive ourselves. I believe it is important to acknowledge that while we are dehoarding or decluttering- call it what you will- life is still going on a round us. Laundry needs to be done, cooking, shopping, going to the park with the kids, having dinner with friends, etc. None of us have the luxury of living in a vacuum – where all we do is dehoard/declutter. So with all things being equal there are many people that could never cope as well as we do if they were given this particular situation. My brothers suggestion to me was to just run away – literally pack the car under cover of night & leave the next day when no one was home. In his mind he believed this was the BEST solution. I thought one thing- coward. My brother is a coward because he does not have the coping skills to stay & fight this corner. Well I stayed & have made very, very good progress. I am proud of myself for taking responsibility for my actions. That’s what grown up people do. So please EVERYONE don’t underestimate yourselves to cope & get the job done

hugs

blossum17

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

blossum17 wrote:

My brothers suggestion to me was to just run away – literally pack the car under cover of night & leave the next day when no one was home.

My brother’s suggestion was to sell my house with EVERYTHING in it.

blossum17 wrote:

Well I stayed & have made very, very good progress. I am proud of myself for taking responsibility for my actions

Brava :!: When people think compulsive hoarders have overwhelming clutter because they’re lazy… they have no idea how much energy many of us put forth.

[blossum17]

My brother & landlord also told me that I need to get psychiatric help. Of course neither of them has a clue as to how much money & time it takes do make therapy work successfully. Unlike them I have done 15 years of therapy, so I know. Besides neither of these individuals have ever done therapy to the best of my knowledge. What I hate most are when people make proclamations that are intended to help but they don’t have an inkling of what it entails. Do that! Do this!

Don’t do that!! Don’t do this!! Meanwhile you are left to handle it ALL on your own So much for being helpful !!

BTW – I already know how crazy I am, unlike others who walk around, are crazy & never take responsibility for being so!!

best

blossum17

[chaosqueenParticipant]

Bad day? Huh?

I think it happens way too often that someone wants to help, but only in the way that they think is helpful. (And I don’t exclude myself.) I have a friend who wants to come help me clean. Nice of her. But all I hear is:”your house is not clean enough”. Even if I hired someone to clean my house every day it would never be as clean as hers. I simply don’t care enough. What I would need and what would be helpful is someone to just sit with me amidst the chaos and let me know it is okay and that they love me anyway.

So Blossom, smile and let them talk. And when they are gone maybe throw something against the wall Something soft preferably! Don’t let them get you down. As you said. “You know!” and lets face it. Your progress has been amazing! Just do it your way and you will be fine. Of what i gathered from the board finding a therapist who can actually help you isn’t all that easy!

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

blossum17 wrote:

My brother & landlord also told me that I need to get psychiatric help. Of course neither of them has a clue as to how much money & time it takes do make therapy work successfully.

I feel for you. It’s really frustrating. I’ve also spent many years in therapy. Unfortunately, it wasn’t until after I lost my insurance coverage that I learned you need a therapist who specializes in treating hoarding disorder. Up until then, I had just been seeing regular talk therapists. Not only was the last therapist unable to help me with the hoarding disorder — he made some comments that hurt me, even though I’m sure it wasn’t his intention. He simply didn’t know anything about the disorder.

chaosqueen is right … finding a therapist who can actually help with this isn’t so easy. It’s expensive and slow going, too.

Years ago my mother said to me, “Your brother told me that if you go to therapy for a year and you’re not cured… then it’s not working.” P.S. Neither my mother nor brother have ever been to therapy… even though each of them could use a little

chaosqueen wrote:

So Blossom, smile and let them talk. And when they are gone maybe throw something against the wall Something soft preferably! Don’t let them get you down.

Agreed. Sadly, I cannot speak honestly with my family about my struggles. I have to keep all that pain to myself and act as if I’m OK. Keep conversations along surface topics, such as the weather or silly gossip. It hurts me so, hearing things from my mother like, “Try to smile more. You look so much prettier when you smile.” or “You just need to change your perspective,” from my brother.

I’m trying so hard to change my perspective… I truly am. But it’s not easy! I even try to “trick” myself into taking action, hoping that the action will help change what at times feels like a mental stranglehold.

Thankfully I have some caring friends I can talk to on occasion. That’s limited to a degree, since they can’t relate to what my mind is battling. But it helps.

Hugs.

[chaosqueenParticipant]

ShedTheShame wrote:

blossum17 wrote:

It hurts me so, hearing things from my mother like, “Try to smile more. You look so much prettier when you smile.” or “You just need to change your perspective,” from my brother.

This almost made ME THROW SOMETHING AGAINST THE WALL! :evil:

I lack the words to describe just how much I despise these lines. There are 2 well meaning men in my life that I run into on a weekly basis and those are the 2 lines they keep throwing at me. As I don’t want to land my fist in their teeth I usually grit mine, but every now and then it is more than I could handle. Once I snapped and listed the things I just fought through over the last 2 hours and told guy #1 I wonder if you’d be smiling right now if you where in my place. With guy #2 I am on closer terms so he sometimes gets sassy comebacks like:”who says I want to look prettier?” or “smiles are reserved for my husband”. HE is also the one who like to pull the change of perspective on me. One day I said:”Maybe YOU are the one who needs to change his perspective!” I must have picked the right moment as it got him thinking. He looked at me and said:”Maybe you are right.”

Sometimes all we can do is remind ourselves they mean well. Other times we can try to explain to them that “meaning well” is the opposite of “doing good”.

And maybe, just maybe we need to have compassion for them, too. Many of them hurt because of our situation. They hurt, because they can’t help us and most of them are just clumsy in their helplessness….

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

chaosqueen wrote:

Sometimes all we can do is remind ourselves they mean well. Other times we can try to explain to them that “meaning well” is the opposite of “doing good”.

And maybe, just maybe we need to have compassion for them, too. Many of them hurt because of our situation. They hurt, because they can’t help us and most of them are just clumsy in their helplessness….

Yes, it’s frustrating for all parties. Empathy is key. We may not be able to agree with each other, but we can try to understand what the other is experiencing.

This quote resonated with me:

“Opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding. The highest form of knowledge… is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another’s world. It requires profound purpose larger than the self kind of understanding.” [Bill Bullard]

I’m so sensitive to my mother’s comments about my looks that I try not to Skype with her if I’m not wearing makeup :roll: If she thinks I look OK, then I must be doing OK?? Always amazed how people think they can tell what’s going on with someone else from how that person appears on the outside. Yeahright :!:

[SpoonsInsteadOfSheepParticipant]

Great quote. I have well-meaning relatives who sometimes say insensitive things to me and/or tell me in some form or another that my life would be better if I did things their way. I know it’s frustrating for them though.

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