Compassionate Discourse

[blossum17]

Hello Friends!

Have you viewed the recent post by kim2014 from Daily Mail- UK or the request from Blink Films?? I wonder how can the shame ever be shed when it seems that all people want to focus on is the dreaded Hoard. Why does the Hoard, that steals years of our lives, deserve so much attention?? How does the conversation ever change when those of us who are fighting the good fight never get a opportunity to speak about life after the Hoard?? As I pointed out to Blink there is more going on then the Hoard.

Hard to speak out when fear of judgement & rejection looms. Is it a wonder that people never do get help and isn’t it interesting that it’s always takes these dramatic instances for the paradigm to shift. Of course many people believe this predicament could never happen to them. They should only know how many of us felt that way & found ourselves for whatever reason in this predicament.

I work with 2 wonderful, young teachers and both LOVE to purge their stuff – at home & at school. They don’t struggle with discarding issues. They throw out & move on. Light as a feather. I told the one that if she could bottle that & sell it there would be millions to be made. When I speak with her I can see a difference in how objects are related to. I relate much more strongly to objects then she does. Even things like cookie tins. We were having lunch & there was an empty tin. I picked it up said to her with a smile – issue. She just laughed and said really?? I was like really because it could be useful for storing

things. I didn’t take the tin but it was good to share a laugh over it with someone I consider a good colleague.

best

blossum17

[chaosqueenParticipant]

YOU PASSED UP AN EMPTY COOKIE TIN!

WOW! Congratulations. Cookie tins have more power over me than I care to admit! But these days I just bake cookies, refill the tin and tell them not to bother returning it. I basically outsource the “getting rid of”. Sneaky me.

[blossum17]

A bit of a quote from Anne Lamott’s book, bird by bird. Please keep in mind she is talking about the writing process & is not a person with hoarding tendencies as far as I know, but it had value for me today so I am sharing it. BTW every time I saw writing I thought life or living.

Perfectionism: is the voice of the oppressor, the enemy of the people. It will keep you cramped & insane your whole life & it is the main obstacle between you & and a shitty first draft. I think perfectionism is based on the obsessive belief that if you run carefully enough, hitting each stepping-stone just right, you won’t have to die. The truth is that you will die anyway… Perfectionism means that you try desperately not to leave so much mess to clean up. But clutter & mess show us that life is being lived. Clutter is wonderfully fertile ground – you can still discover new treasures under all those piles, clean things up, edit things out, fix things, get a grip. Tidiness suggests that something is as good as it’s going to get; tidiness makes me think of held breath, of suspended animation, while writing needs to breathe & move. Perfectionism on the other hand will only drive you mad. Perfectionism is a mean, frozen form of idealism, while messes are the artist’s true friend… when we were children we needed to make messes in order to find out who we are and why we are here – and by extension, what we’re supposed to be writing.

So take that Marie Kondo & all you tidy fanatics

best

blossum17

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

Hi, all —

Been meaning to reply for a while but got sidetracked :roll:

blossum17 wrote:

How does the conversation ever change when those of us who are fighting the good fight never get a opportunity to speak about life after the Hoard?? As I pointed out to Blink there is more going on then the Hoard.

Forgive me for not being quite clear on what you mean here. Do you mean hearing from people who have succeeded in clearing out their hoard? (I do wish we heard more success / follow-up stories.) Or do you mean an opportunity for people currently fighting the good fight to talk about their life outside of the hoard?

You’re right – as long as we don’t feel it’s safe to speak up, we won’t reach out for needed help. A significant portion of the professional discourse seems to focus on extreme cases where public intervention is called for. But help needs to come sooner to prevent moderate cases from spiraling into extreme cases.

When I told a prominent researcher in the hoarding field that I’m around a 3 on their rating scale of 1-9, he responded, “You’re just below what we consider clinical.” But I know the way my brain operates that I’m clinical. The only reason it’s not worse at the moment is because I’ve essentially dedicated my life to fighting it tooth and nail.

Time that I’d much rather spend doing joyful things is eaten up by managing my hoard in an effort to prevent it from getting worse. My moderate hoard is just as capable of stealing years — decades — of my life.

The “3” hoarders of today may become the “9” hoarders of tomorrow. It’s progressive. No one just becomes a “9” overnight.

blossum17 wrote:

Of course many people believe this predicament could never happen to them. They should only know how many of us felt that way & found ourselves for whatever reason in this predicament.

True, SO true!

blossum17 wrote:

Perfectionism: is the voice of the oppressor, the enemy of the people.

Reminds me of Anne Wilson Schaef’s quote: Perfectionism is self-abuse of the highest order. I find it interesting that when you look up “imperfect,” you find “damaged,” “defective,” “inferior, and “insufficient.” I think “human” should be included :!:

chaosqueen wrote:

WOW! Congratulations. Cookie tins have more power over me than I care to admit!

Kudos on passing up the cookie tin, blossom17! Like chaosqueen, I’m vulnerable to the almighty cookie tin

[chaosqueenParticipant]

blossum17 wrote:

Perfectionism is self-abuse of the highest order.

THIS is going on my fridge. You might just have saved my sanity.

PS: All hail the mighty cookie tin! Care to get a glimpse of my collection?

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

chaosqueen wrote:

All hail the mighty cookie tin! Care to get a glimpse of my collection?

What do you have more of… round or square??

After reading Marie Kondo’s book, I can see how square/rectangular ones can be put to good use! Round not so much

[chaosqueenParticipant]

Square, only square. The round ones are only collected for the purpose of filling them with cookies to give to friends…

ACctually rectangles…all rectangles hahaha silly me. Can’t tell the difference between a square and a rectangle…

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

chaosqueen wrote:

The round ones are only collected for the purpose of filling them with cookies to give to friends…

Hope you don’t mind, but I’m going to steal this tactic of yours to get rid of my round tins!

[chaosqueenParticipant]

Trust me. NO ONE will mind. Just tell them if they return the tin, they will not get cookies again or the tins will just come back to you….

[OddsocksParticipant]

ShedTheShame wrote:

Appreciate the welcome, Kim2014.

Oh, yes. The nightmares. I often wake up feeling more tired than when I went to bed because of them. Last night I dreamt that someone had broken into my house using a crowbar on the back door. I couldn’t see where they were and was so scared.

)

I often have a ‘packing’ dream where I am in a situation that I have to pack up stuff for a big journey, but havent enough space and get stressed about it. Often its in the context of a wonderful holiday,and I am aware I’m loosing out on that. A bit frustrating when I wake up that have had this nightmare -its bad enough having clutter in my mind in my waking hours!

[Kim2014]

Quote:

-its bad enough having clutter in my mind in my waking hours!

Yes!

Quote:

Perfectionism is self-abuse of the highest order.

One I’ll be pondering on.

Blossum totally agree with you about the focus on the symptom of the problem rather than the problem and the irony of it. I’ts a conversation I’d love to have, and will try and make some time for. Very interested to know what others think.

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

Oddsocks wrote:

I often have a ‘packing’ dream where I am in a situation that I have to pack up stuff for a big journey, but havent enough space and get stressed about it. Often its in the context of a wonderful holiday,and I am aware I’m loosing out on that.

OMG… I have this nightmare scenario all the time, too TIME is often a factor, as well. Like, I’m in a hotel suite and must check out soon — but I haven’t even begun packing, my stuff is scattered all over the place, and it’s too much to fit into my luggage. OY.

[blossum17]

@STS – It would be good to hear from people who have made it to the other side of the Hoard. Not just in terms of how they did it but in terms of how they feel about having done it. Many people act like once the Hoard is dead & gone everything will be coming up roses. It just ain’t true. There is a period of adjustment. Everyone thinks oh you’ll be so happy! so relieved! It will be so wonderful, so marvelous. A new life awaits you on the other side of the Hoard. Well yes & no. It took me about 6 weeks or so to finally feel better about what had happened. Initially I was very very traumatized; very distressed & perhaps depressed. In some ways I like my mess. In it’s own way the Hoard can provide comfort from what ever may be bothering you but like any kind of addictive behavior eventually it turns on you & you are left dealing with the aftermath. And once the Hoard has been dealt with there is the maintenance phase. For myself right now I deal with mostly clutter – lots of clutter but no Hoard. However in some rooms it hangs in the balance. For me the clutter ebbs & flows. And I believe eventually the battle becomes about the clutter & the sorting & discarding & cleaning & organizing which is hard to do when the Hoard is in residence. In my mind STS I differentiate between the two – Hoard & clutter.

I am coming up on my 1 year anniversary & can say very happily I prefer my home as it is now – warts & all to what it was a year ago – a non clinical Level 3/4 hoard ready to slip up the scale to a 9 for sure. But the Game Is On to quote Sherlock Holmes and I know more about myself & my coping skills have improved. My impulse buying has greatly improved & I am looking at my living space in ways to make it comfortable, stylish, & functional not just decorative. I struggle with my stuff but the whole world struggles with its stuff. And I know like a recovering alcoholic that I could have a huge slip one day so I don’t take my progress for granted. I am thankful for my faith & support from my church family. When I began to discuss what was happening with a friend at church things changed. Once I could give voice to what had happened & what was happening the Hoard didn’t feel so big & bad anymore. That alone was a major break thru. Not that I would ever exploit what happened or want people to believe that what happened was okay. It was not Okay but some how I had lost sight of that. All of this has helped me assimilate better habits. My home is safe & clean and I enjoy living there once again.

I very strongly believe these are the stories people need to hear about. These are the conversations that need to be had. Yours, mine, kim’s , CQ’s, oddsocks, etc. Not all these over the top, exploitative television shows which only serve themselves & no one else. Unfortunately I also strongly believe no one is interested in these types of stories. They may be one day once all the “official” research is complete but not now. Happily by the time that happens all of us will be so far along that when they come looking for our stories we’ll be like- What are you talking about??? Because normalcy(each to it’s own definition of that term) will have fully returned to of our lives.

I strongly believe that we, the people who suffer with this condition & our family members, are the ones who should be setting the conversations. Not strangers, with the best intentions, but who can’t have the slightest idea what Hoarding entails. Even though I don’t see myself as an activist I know I could be an activist for this cause.

WOW :o That was long & I must get back to Spring cleaning my kitchen, hallway & living room. No rest for the cluttered – quoting oddsocks, I think

best

blossum17

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

Hi, blossom17 —

Thanks for taking the time to share so much. Can’t tell you how much I appreciate it. As one who feels like I’m spinning wheels around a “3,” I’m trying to remain optimistic. Some days I feel like I’m so very close to my mindset reaching a tipping point where the balance swings over and I might be able to get my home to a more manageable state. It helps to hear from people like you who have managed to make it to the other side of the Hoard — to know that it is possible.

So when you say “clutter,” would you say that you’re more in control of your space and your possessions as opposed to your possessions having control of you and your space? Just trying to imagine in my mind what making it to the other side of the Hoard looks like; what a “cluttered” home looks like vs. a hoarded home. (Forgive me… just been living in my “3-hoard” space for so long that I’ve kind of lost my ability to gauge, if that makes any sense?)

With the state of my home, I still have too much shame to invite people over. I’m frustrated by the condition of my home and how difficult it is to access things within it or even carry out simple activities. Plus, the loneliness and isolation is killing me while my life is passing me by.

That’s very interesting, what you shared about being initially traumatized, distressed and depressed afterwards. May I ask how long it took you to get to the other side? Was the initial shock due to clearing the Hoard out quickly? Or because you missed the comfort it sometimes provided?

Congratulations on your upcoming anniversary and for all the insight and skills you acquired in the process. No easy feat! Agree with you 100% about people needing to hear these stories. It looks like I’m going to be giving a presentation at an annual conference on hoarding this summer :shock: I’m a bit terrified, but at the same time encouraged. Like you, I don’t see myself as an activist… but I feel like I have something to share??

Take care & thanks again,

STS

[chaosqueenParticipant]

I agree on there being a difference between “hoard” and “clutter”. I just sometimes struggle to find a good definition. For me “clutter” ist stuff that is lying around and in use. Hoard is “stationary” not in use, weighing me down, in my way to trip and break my neck. Stuff that i can’t release. How do you feel about it?

STS I think it is awesome that you will be giving a presentation. Let our voices be heard!

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