Compassionate Discourse

[Kim2014]

Got to be really quick and go, but wanted to say agree with CQ on awesomeness! (Have different definitions of clutter vs hoard. Hopefully bbl)

[Kim2014]

In my own case I’d define hoarded things as things that either don’t get used, have been buried/hidden away, often because of painful emotions connected to them, are being kept for a rainy day with a disregard to how often it actually is a rainy day, or serious overstocks being kept to ensure they’re not run out of, when by sheer amount gathered that’s clearly unlikely.

In the case of others I’ve known, I’d also include things acquired they’re unaware of or whose existence has been forgotten.

In my home I’d define clutter as lots of ‘stuff’ usually not in its place, either in use, about to be, supposed to be, or ornamental. I’d also include much loved things used annually or bi annually as likely to be clutter.

In some people’s cases I’d include things they define as possibly useable but possibly rubbish, but they keep as they haven’t yet or can’t decide.

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

Thanks to all for your support and sharing your personal definitions of “clutter” vs “hoard.” Very much appreciated.

I find it interesting how some researchers don’t seem to consider an individual a hoarder if the individual has enough space to store all of his/her things, and the possessions don’t negatively affect functioning on a daily basis. Not sure how I feel about that

Say someone saves every rubber band, financial statement, single sock, cookie tin … But they have a mansion with plenty of room to store all of it. To me, the behavior and decision making seem characteristic of hoarding — even if the items don’t physically impede the individual.

OK, it’s been a long day. Thanks again for being here. I’m so grateful to have this safe, supportive, and helpful forum.

STS

[chaosqueenParticipant]

100% with you on the “not a hoarder if you have room to store it”. I have way more stuff to store things than what is good for me. I don’t care fi my house generally meets a clutter pic standard of 1-2, if I have an anxiety attack over throwing away a headrest for a stroller that I got rid of 2 years early just because the headrest is “new” as it was never used I have a problem. Fortunaly EFT worked!

[Frog in the well]

EFT ?

[Kim2014]

Frog EFT is ‘Emotional Freedom Technique.’ Jasmine (who kindly provided and maintains this site for us) says it was very effective for her mum, and as you can see others also find it to work – to quote Jasmine “combines tapping on specific acupressure points with structured dialogue.”

Have a look on resources page for more info on where to get it, or videos on how to do it for yourself.

(Sadly I don’t think it’s done anything for me, but it’s been suggested there’s a link between it and my inability to be hypnotised.)

STS I guess if someone can afford and have enough space to hoard and they and their family not be affected physically or mentally by it, then all though they have the condition, they have a situation that allows them to be unaffected – at least at that time.

But, I the Collyer brothers may be a good example of people who at one time might have fitted that criteria, but later systematically ran out of space and order, and bit by bit became negatively affected by the need to ‘protect’ themselves, their hoarded home, and way of life with the situation becoming very extreme.

[chaosqueenParticipant]

To be honest with the EFT, I have only done the tapping on the top of my head. That is enough for me. I have never tried hypnosis, but I read if you cry at the movies or get scared when the actor is scared you are well fit for hypnosis. I think I would be perfect for hypnosis. I think it’S cool that it doesn’t work for you. I mean obviously a bummer if you tried it, but to me that sounds like someone who is in control of themselves.

[Kim2014]

No, never cried at a movie or been scared because the actor was portraying it, (though I don’t watch horror movies) and always got seen as unemotional and a cold fish. I do control my emotions, it was expected, and you do sort of learn to appear as you’re expected to be, but I’m actually anything but.

Yes, hypnosis was going to another of those ‘magic wand’ fixes we all dream of, :roll: and I went to a renowned good one who does both therapeutic work and entertainment.

I went to see him in action a few times first. It was interesting seeing how many people remained totally in control of their minds but were clearly surprised to see he could have some effect in varying degrees on their hands. He wasn’t able to get a twitch out of me even when we tried it under the influence of a mild tranquilliser, but tbf he also only charged me for the 1st of 5 sessions. and without me giving him much info he gave me a few insights into why I might be how I was, so I guess it wasn’t totally wasted.

[chaosqueenParticipant]

Oh, I cry through boxes of tissues and people don’t want to sit next to me for scary movies, as I tend to jump and grab their arms, or hide behind their back. Fortunately my husband finds it highly amusing! It’s great that you got something out of it, even if it didn’t work.

[blossum17]

Hi STS!!

Hope you are well today! In response to your questions from last post. I came to a point where I realized I could not do what my landlord was asking me to do & reached out to my brother. I did what he asked & sent pictures & explained as much as I could before he came to help. It was this experience that left me traumatized. While it strated out ok it devolved into name calling, throwing out things with out my permission & then taunting me about it, acting toward me like I had lost my mind – when he was acting like a lunatic, unearthing old family history & hurts, saying things he should have just taken to the grave & so on. At one point I had to smack him, yes you read that correctly, because he was just out of control & had to be brought back from the brink of whatever.

And while looking back I was glad to have the help but I would not do it again. I have found it is easier to have trusted friends or strangers help. So that’s pretty much where all those negative emotions came from.

Fortunately a colleague at work was very helpful & supportive. I spoke with her about the situation & my brother’s behavior & guess what?? She was appalled by what had occurred. She shared with me that it would take a few weeks to feel better about what had been lost. I didn’t believe her but about 6 weeks later I did. I loved being able to sit in my newly dehoarded kitchen & cook, watch the birds, read, have a cup of tea. It was so peaceful & relaxing. This was what really enocouraged me. I always came back to my lovely kitchen. The living room as well offered a new found haven. From this I moved forward to decluttering kitchen cabinets, pantry, etc. and cleaning as I was decluttering. By the end of the summer I had the kitchen I wanted. Of course at this time I was also tackling the attic. But that is a whole another post

In October 3 important things happened: an old ratty, smelling couch was removed from my living room, I finished paying off a credit card & was about 100 days out since the Hoard was removed. When the 2 guys from church came to remove the couch my home looked normal. Yes there were dishes to be put away & garbage to go out but that’s how it is in every house. The foyer, hall way, kitchen, living room & bathroom were all fine I was not ashamed. Of course the bedrooms remain a thorn in the side but brick by brick, my citizens.

From that point I just kept moving forward as best I could. My beloved cousin provided an additional challenge – How will you maintain what you’ve gained? You are not getting any younger & can’t be doing these massive cleanouts very 5-6 years. A very good point, I admit. So I set up a cleaning schedule for each day of the week tackling different rooms plus the car. I also have 5 Daily Chores that help keep things under control – mail, laundry, garbage, dishes, recycling. Even if nothing gets decluttered this helps keep the place from going south – if you know what I mean .

Besides this I have drawn pictures of how I want an area to look. This has helped me tremendously. My downstairs entry way is now a functional space not just decorative. I keep shoes, coats, hats, mittens, scarves, shawls tidy in bins tucked in an old bookcase from my beloved grandmother. I bought 2 new area carpets & recycled a beloved poster which fits into the over all color scheme So when I enter my home I land quickly, quietly & in an organized fashion. All this from a drawing – believe it or not. Drawing gives you time to dream & there are no right or wrong ways to draw.

And of course this site & the encouragement from folks here has meant very much to me.

Well that’s some of it and thanks again for reading – this was a long post. But remember what they say in AA – take the best & leave the rest for another time.

BTW is the conference in US or UK?? You’ll do a great job I am sure & we will want ALL the details. Is there a web site we may access??

Back to Spring Cleaning- no rest for the cluttered

best

blossum17

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

Sorry I’ve been MIA for a while. Got a much-needed short-term job recently. The hours were long and erratic, so it threw what little routine I have in my life off balance

blossum17, thanks for the in-depth reply! Did your brother assist with the major clean out? I’ve had numerous painful bouts with my brother over my situation. At this point, I’ve learned to keep it to myself and not look to him for support because it just ends up in conflict. I, too, have found it easier to have friends help.

Good for you having a cleaning schedule and your 5 Daily Chores. I need to incorporate more into my schedule… they definitely help! Before I go to bed at night, I clear out and clean the kitchen sink so when I wake up in the morning I’m not greeted by a depressing sink full of dirty dishes. This week I started “Toilet Tuesdays” because alliteration is fun & it reminds me to scrub the porcelain thrones

I like your visualization drawing method. I can’t draw to save my life, but I have a folder on my computer with images of dream rooms. Hoping they serve as motivation for me to clear out unnecessary items and work towards a more functional and tranquil living space.

The conference (US) takes place the last weekend of July in Chicago, IL. http://ocd2016.org/schedule/” class=”bbcode_url”>http://ocd2016.org/schedule/

Hope Spring Cleaning is going well

STS

[FloraMcDora]

I hope you don’t mind me jumping into this conversation.

I’m really sorry for all of you who have struggled with family members, it’s really difficult for us to know how you feel about your stuff, and although I have had nearly 50 years of trying to help my brother, I still get it wrong sometimes.

I think the title of this thread says it all really – we do need compassionate discourse. I feel that lots of different conditions are getting much more ‘airtime’ these days, and if we can try to understand each other, be it tourettes, hoarding, adhd etc, then hopefully we can be more sympathetic with each other. I know that hoarding doesn’t get the positive airtime that it should, but I feel that there is a positive for it being talked about, at least people can realise that it’s more common than they thought, and perhaps people don’t feel so alone.

I am finding that supporting my brother is easier if I say to him ‘what do you want to achieve today’ and go with that. He’s not ready to clear his hoard, or to have cleaning routines, but I hope one day he will.

Again, I hope you don’t mind me jumping in here, your posts give me hope that my brother can find a way out one day.

Flora

[chaosqueenParticipant]

Flora, jump in anywhere, anytime!

[FloraMcDora]

Thank you ChaosQueen, I appreciate that.

[ShedTheShameParticipant]

Hi, FloraMcDora —

Glad to have you jump in… that’s what makes it discourse

My personal experience with my family is precisely that: a personal experience and by no means representative of anyone else’s. Your brother is fortunate to have you willing to try to help him for so many years. An inordinate amount of patience is a prerequisite for anyone trying to help someone with hoarding disorder.

I can only imagine how frustrating it is for loved ones trying to help a compulsive hoarder because our “rationale” doesn’t seem rational. Even when I KNOW my “rationale” isn’t rational — unfortunately the wiring in my brain often overpowers It must also be very painful for you, wanting to help but being unable to do so.

I’m forever grateful to have this safe forum to participate in compassionate discourse. With the stigma attached to hoarding disorder, we’re not yet at a place where we feel safe discussing our experiences out in the open. Hopefully during my lifetime, that will change and those struggling with this complex disorder will not miss out on help simply because the shame keeps them hiding in secrecy.

Asking your brother, “What do you want to achieve today?” is a good place to start. I hope he’s responding with goals in return, no matter how small.

In my experience so far, I’ve found that friends with the best of intentions offer to start with helping me clear out items. But that can be a very frustrating experience for both parties because of the irrational “rationale.” So I’ve found it helpful to have friends support me in ways other than the decision making involved in clearing out items.

For example, I need to be the one to decide what stays and what goes. But my compassionate neighbors (in whom I have confided) were having a yard sale and asked if I wanted to put any items out. That was not only a huge help to me, it was also a welcomed experience of human connection on a nice, sunny day

Those same neighbors and I were both in need of roof repairs. They kindly offered to have several contractors come out (meeting at my neighbors’ house!) to give quotes to each of us. Together, we evaluate the options and decided to use one contractor for both houses. Having my neighbors to go through the process with was a godsend. If not for them, I’d surely be living with buckets around the house to catch drips!

When I was considering selling my car, a friend of mine who is experienced in selling vehicles did online searches on similar vehicles to give me an idea of what I might get for it.

Another friend is really good at selling items on ebay and offered to list anything I wanted to sell.

All of these actions have been invaluable to me and none of them involved being in a situation that could’ve end up in an argument

Have you read the book Digging Out? It’s intended audience is the loved ones of compulsive hoarders. You might find it helpful. I asked my family to read the book — even bought it for them. No luck, though ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Hope you are able to make some progress with your brother,

STS

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